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	<title>Comments on: A sample of Minnow</title>
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	<link>http://www.minnow-lang.org/2008/06/29/a-sample-of-minnow/</link>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.minnow-lang.org/2008/06/29/a-sample-of-minnow/comment-page-1/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 03:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnow-lang.org/?p=8#comment-5</guid>
		<description>To my knowledge, mutable state doesn&#039;t kill concurrency, but shared state does, since you&#039;re going to spend your time synchronizing instead of doing useful work.

In Minnow there is no shared state.  The finished language will allow you to chose between a scope-enforced pass-by-handoff, or simply by copying what you wish to send.

Monads, too, have a problem in that they aren&#039;t concurrent.  By definition they define a string of things that must be done in order.  

Instead, what is more helpful is to talk about the system as connected autonomous actors, so that you can use analysis to see how best to lay these actors on the hardware (you can see my Minnow talk for a light introduction, or dive into the StreamIT papers for more information)

The finished Minnow will allow higher order automation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To my knowledge, mutable state doesn&#8217;t kill concurrency, but shared state does, since you&#8217;re going to spend your time synchronizing instead of doing useful work.</p>
<p>In Minnow there is no shared state.  The finished language will allow you to chose between a scope-enforced pass-by-handoff, or simply by copying what you wish to send.</p>
<p>Monads, too, have a problem in that they aren&#8217;t concurrent.  By definition they define a string of things that must be done in order.  </p>
<p>Instead, what is more helpful is to talk about the system as connected autonomous actors, so that you can use analysis to see how best to lay these actors on the hardware (you can see my Minnow talk for a light introduction, or dive into the StreamIT papers for more information)</p>
<p>The finished Minnow will allow higher order automation.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Spiewak</title>
		<link>http://www.minnow-lang.org/2008/06/29/a-sample-of-minnow/comment-page-1/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Spiewak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 07:58:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://minnow-lang.org/?p=8#comment-4</guid>
		<description>Interesting.  However, I&#039;m not sure I like the idea of mutable state, especially in a language which is attempting to simplify parallel programming.  I&#039;m certainly not a purist about it, I have nothing *against* imperative languages per se; but mutable state *kills* concurrency, even when using actor abstractions.

Aside from treating actors like sort-of monads, does Minnow actually support higher-order constructs?  If it does, then I suppose it would be possible to avoid mutable state for the most part, it would just take a bit of self-control.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting.  However, I&#8217;m not sure I like the idea of mutable state, especially in a language which is attempting to simplify parallel programming.  I&#8217;m certainly not a purist about it, I have nothing *against* imperative languages per se; but mutable state *kills* concurrency, even when using actor abstractions.</p>
<p>Aside from treating actors like sort-of monads, does Minnow actually support higher-order constructs?  If it does, then I suppose it would be possible to avoid mutable state for the most part, it would just take a bit of self-control.</p>
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